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Planning and Zoning Meeting Agendas and Minutes

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Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting

Meeting Agenda

Meeting Minutes

September 15, 2009

The meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Chairman Mike Wind at 7:00 p.m.  Members in attendance were:
PRESENT                                                       ABSENT
Chairman Michael Wind                    Commissioner Pat Apel
Secretary Frank Karr                           Commissioner Pat Buehrle
Commissioner John Schwent          City Engineer Gary Kramer
Commissioner Mark Weaver 
Commissioner Chris Wright 
Alderman Jimmy Terbrock 
Mayor Tim Pogue  
Assistant City Administrator Thomas Aiken 
Adam Lorenz for City Attorney Robert Jones 

Approval of Minutes

A motion was made by Secretary Karr and seconded by Alderman Terbrock to approve the minutes of the August 3, 2009 meeting of the Planning & Zoning Commission as submitted.  The motion received unani-mous approval from the Commission members present.  Chairman Wind abstained.

SUE 09-3 – Special Use Exception Petition
  (Alcoholic Beverage Sales by the Drink for Consumption on the Premises)
  The Loft, 930 Kehrs Mill Rd, Suite 302, Ballwin MO  63011
  Petitioner:  Mr. Robert Wilhite, 4909 Devonshire Ave, St. Louis MO 63109

Mr. Robert Wilhite, managing parter of Sky Music Lounge and The Loft, addressed the members of the Planning & Zoning Commission, requesting approval for his petition.  Chairman Wind asked about the hours of operation for The Loft.  Mr. Wilhite said The Loft is currently open from 4:00 p.m. until 1:00 a.m., Monday through Saturday.  He said both Sky Music Lounge and The Loft operate under one liquor license.  Mr. Wilhite said he is petitioning for a separate liquor license for The Loft in order to be open on Sundays.  He said The Loft is more of a sports restaurant, and he would like be open for football games.  The hours of operation on Sunday will be 11:00 a.m. until midnight.

Chairman Wind opened the public hearing and asked if there were any proponents wishing to speak in favor of the petition.  There were none.   Chairman Wind asked if there were any opponents wishing to speak in opposition to the petition.  There were none, and the public hearing was closed.

Mayor Pogue made a motion to recommend approval of SUE 09-3 to the Board of Aldermen.  Commis-sioner Weaver seconded the motion, which received unanimous approval from the Commission members present.

SUE 09-6 – Special Use Exception Petition
  (Front Yard Parking)
  Westridge Elementary School, 908 Crestland Drive, Ballwin MO  63011
  Petitioner:  Mr. Arthur Floyd, Rockwood School District, Eureka MO 63025

Mr. Steve Smith, project manager of Glenn Construction, addressed the Commission, requesting approval for this petition.  Glenn Construction manages all matters related to construction and permitting for Rock-wood School District. 

Mayor Pogue asked Mr. Smith if the petitioner has looked into using a pervious surface for this addition to the parking lot.  Mr. Smith said that in general, that option has not been considered; however, they are not opposed to it.  He said that using pervious surfaces has not been a requirement in most municipalities.  Mayor Pogue strongly recommended that the petitioner use pervious pavement for this project.  He said stormwater runoff from this area flows into Fishpot Creek, where there is a history of flooding and ero-sion downstream from this location. 

Mayor Pogue said that while MSD’s threshold for runoff is 2 cfs, the cumulative effect of multiple in-stances of allowing the waiver of stormwater detention or control for less than 2 cfs will be a dramatic increase in water in Fishpot Creek.  Mayor Pogue said his goal is to keep that flow rate growth at zero.  He said this project is a prime candidate for using a pervious surface, since it is a small area with light traffic.  Mayor Pogue distributed a list of examples where pervious pavement was used successfully in similar situations.

Mr. Smith said that he understands the Mayor’s concerns.  He said that he will commit the District to looking into using pervious pavement in general, and if the Commission requires it for approval of this petition, will look into it specifically for this project.  Mayor Pogue emphasized that for his support of this project, this is a very strong recommendation.

Alderman Terbrock noted that, according to the plans submitted, it appears that the swale is not completed to the discharge spot.  This situation could lead to standing water, but would be mitigated by the use of pervious pavement.  Alderman Terbrock also noted that MSD has raised its square footage fee for imper-vious pavement.  He said that using a pervious surface could save the school district money.  Alderman Terbrock said that he agrees with Mayor Pogue that it is imperative that a pervious surface is used in this project.

Mr. Smith said he did not come to this meeting prepared to discuss this application for this project.  He said the petitioner intends to comply with the recommendations of the petition review report.  Mr. Smith said that the petitioner would prefer approval for this project and the ability to pursue pervious pavement for future projects.

Alderman Terbrock said that the petition review report states that the proposed pavement is not up to Ballwin’s standards of thickness, and using a pervious surface may alleviate that problem.  He said he would also like to see rain barrels utilized to collect rainwater and use it to irrigate the landscaping. 

Chairman Wind asked if the petitioner is in agreement with the recommendation of the petition review report that trees be planted between the proposed parking lot and the street.  Mr. Smith said the petitioner agrees with all the recommendations in the report.  Chairman Wind noted that the use of pervious pave-ment could reduce some of the additional expenses associated with compliance to the recommendations of the petition review report. 

Commissioner Wright said he would like to have more information about the pervious pavement before the Planning & Zoning Commission makes a decision on this petition.  Mayor Pogue noted that the City is planning to use a pervious surface in a cul-de-sac in the very near future.  Discussion was held on the various types of pervious pavements and their maintenance.

Chairman Wind asked Mayor Pogue how he thought the Commission should proceed with this petition.  Mayor Pogue said he would like Mr. Smith to determine if the petitioner is willing to use pervious pave-ment, and include it in the Planning & Zoning Commission’s recommendation to the Board of Aldermen.

Alderman Terbrock said that rather than sending it on to the Board of Aldermen, if the petitioner is will-ing to look into whether they can use pervious pavement on this project, their findings can also help edu-cate the Commission members as well. 

Chairman Wind asked if there is a deadline by which the Planning & Zoning Commission must make a recommendation to the Board of Aldermen.  Planning Director Aiken said if the petitioner agrees to allow the petition to be held over, there is no problem.  The ordinance specifies that SUE petitions must be acted upon by the Planning & Zoning Commission within a specific timeframe or it is considered approved when it goes to the Board of Aldermen.

Chairman Wind recognized Mr. Walt Young, who addressed the Commission, saying that while he agrees that the use of pervious pavement is a good idea, the petitioner did not have a chance to investigate that option.  Mr. Young feels that that requirement should be in the City’s standards, so that petitioners can be aware of it up front.  He feels that, in fairness to this petitioner, the Commission should make a recom-mendation based on the current requirements and allow the petition to proceed to the Board of Aldermen.

Alderman Terbrock said that he understands that the petitioner was not prepared to discuss this option tonight, and that is why he is in favor of holding over the petition to give it time to investigate its feasibil-ity.  Mr. Smith said he is not in a position to decide what pavement is used, but he will meet with the as-sistant superintendent of Rockwood School District to discuss investigating this option now and in the future.

Chairman Wind said that since the petitioner’s request complies with current code, can the Planning & Zoning Commission require pervious pavement to be used?  Mayor Pogue said that the petitioner is re-questing a waiver for stormwater detention.  The use of pervious pavement is a form of stormwater con-trol in lieu of detention.

Chairman Wind opened the public hearing and asked if there were any proponents wishing to speak in favor of the petition. 

Walt Young, 634 Lemonwood Drive, asked the City Attorney if it is legal to change the specifica-tions without notification prior to the meeting.  Mr. Adam Lorenz said the Commission is consid-ering tabling the petition for further consideration, which is acceptable.
Chairman Wind asked if there were any opponents wishing to speak in opposition to the petition.  There were none, and the public hearing was closed.

Chairman Wind reopened the public hearing at the recommendation of Mayor Pogue, who then made a motion to table petition SUE 09-6 to the October meeting of the Planning & Zoning Commission to allow the petitioner to investigate the use of pervious pavement for this application.  Alderman Terbrock pro-posed an amendment to the motion to add “in lieu of stormwater detention.”  Mayor Pogue accepted the amendment.  Alderman Terbrock seconded the motion, which received unanimous approval from the Commission members present.

Other Business

Chairman Wind asked for an update on the lawsuit regarding the proposed Schnucks at Clarkson and Kehrs Mill Roads.  Planning Director Aiken said that City Attorney Jones announced that the trial date had been set for April of 2010. 

Alderman Terbrock said that he would like the Planning & Zoning Commission to discuss adopting stan-dards for the use of pervious pavement.  Planning Director Aiken said there should be information avail-able from MSD within the next six months for the Commission to draw on and determine a reasonable standard.  Once that is complete, the Commission will have to decide how to integrate the standard into the code.

Chairman Wind recommended that the new Commission members they consider attending the UMSL Chancellor’s Certificate in Planning & Zoning workshops.  He said he found them very helpful and in-formative.  Planning Director Aiken said there is money in the budget to pay for anyone who would like to attend any or all of the sessions.

Mayor Pogue stated that Sue Heath has tendered her resignation from the Planning & Zoning Commis-sion. 

Planning Director Aiken reminded the Commission members about the joint meeting of the Ballwin and Ellisville Planning Commissions on September 30, 2009.  The meeting is open to the public.


A motion was made by Secretary Karr and seconded by Commissioner Wright to adjourn the meeting.  The motion received unanimous approval, and the meeting was adjourned at 8:13 p.m.

Michael Wind, Chairman
Planning & Zoning Commission